Actually, this is pretty misleading. I'm sorry if this post makes it sound like the gloves are coming off a little bit here, I try to maintain the most objective stance I can even though I'm an employee and advocate of the Wiley Protocol. But some things I cannot let go.
It's true that some women decided to describe their experiences on Rhythmic Living. What is not true is it's visibility: it's very easy to find and very obvious in search results about the Wiley Protocol. And in fact, any prescriber can find it easily with simple Google search terms. I don't know why some persist in slandering/libeling us on specious grounds. All were trying to do is offer a type of BHRT therapy that we believe is supported by actual science AND clinical evidence in the last ten years. For gosh sakes we started out trying to help terminal cancer patients! Isn't that supposed to be noble work? And yet somehow, we must have some evil intent. It's all really very ludicrous. By the way, the cancer patients are doing smashingly, and our results are being written up this year.
There is in fact zero clinical evidence that such a thing as "progesterone detox" is anything but pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo. Your body's excretory and circulatory systems are extremely efficient at getting rid of things you put inside of it. That's the reason when women miss on a dose on the Wiley Protocol they feel it within hours (men too for the Men's Protocol): the hormones are gone.
I encourage everyone to work with their doctor, do their own research, and understand what certain options are, etc. However, I cannot idly sit by while people pass off fallacious and frankly laughable excuses for medical advice regarding concepts that are made up like "progesterone toxicity". Do you have any idea how much progesterone a women makes when she is pregnant? The levels are astronomical. There are no lasting progesterone toxicity events with pregnancy either. And we don't approach pregnancy levels on the Wiley Protocol. Do you think something magical happens in pregnancy? Some unicorn or stork in scrubs comes down from the heavens and imbues a pregnant women a superpower to be able to handle such high progesterone? Doesn't happen.
We are attacked by posters like the one above as lacking rigorous scientific evidence (ironically it's something we are actively gathering, unlike anyone else you might choose to get bio-identicals from), and yet the very same ones turn around in an internet forum and say something as patently absurd as "you might take two years to detox from progesterone poisoning". It makes my brain hurt to have to defend against points like this because I'm taking time out of my life to defend something that has no basis in reality.
Well, you might need to have a good bleeding with leeches, and maybe drink some witches brew and have your bile and blood humors adjusted too. There's about as much supporting science behind medieval medicine as there is in this concept of "progesterone poisoning". Look, the science and data are CLEAR, and any endocrinologist can tell you, hormones are dose dependent. Think about your birth control pills: you put in some progestins exogenously with the pill, and your body stops ovulating because the exogenous hormones trump the endogenous ones quite clearly. If you miss a contraceptive dose, you might get pregnant. Why you may ask? Because progesterone toxicity does not exist, nor does progesterone require a long time to leave your system. Like with the pill, it's between 12-48 hours (unless it's a pill form that is meant to be slow acting like Yaz, which I recommended you stay as far away as possible from).
Now if you put on a lot of exogenous progesterone like in the Wiley Protocol, it isn't simply additive. Your body puts your own progesterone production into senescence, and you have only what you put on.
The effects most women felt coming off of the Wiley Protocol was in fact due mostly to them having to remember what it was like to be in menopause and not have enough (or almost any in some cases) hormones.
I wish you the best of luck in whatever health choices you pursue for yourself. If there is anything we can do here at Wiley Systems to help address the issues you had or are having, please let us know. We have a number of prescriber's who are very adept and have more experience than others that we can refer you to. Often that can make all of the difference.
And regarding a previous post that we don't take down doctors who ask to be taken off the website again, is completely false and simply a lie. We would never want to have anyone listed on the website who isn't motivated, knowledgeable, and/or capable of prescribing. That would destroy what we're building, and contrary to what some would have you believe on the internet, we're not that stupid. Please feel free to forward any correspondence from any of these above mentioned prescriber's and I will personally ensure they are taken down without hesitation.
Best Regards,
Jake Raden
General Manager, Wiley Systems
Comment Reply
Actually, this is pretty misleading. I'm sorry if this post makes it sound like the gloves are coming off a little bit here, I try to maintain the most objective stance I can even though I'm an employee and advocate of the Wiley Protocol. But some things I cannot let go.
It's true that some women decided to describe their experiences on Rhythmic Living. What is not true is it's visibility: it's very easy to find and very obvious in search results about the Wiley Protocol. And in fact, any prescriber can find it easily with simple Google search terms. I don't know why some persist in slandering/libeling us on specious grounds. All were trying to do is offer a type of BHRT therapy that we believe is supported by actual science AND clinical evidence in the last ten years. For gosh sakes we started out trying to help terminal cancer patients! Isn't that supposed to be noble work? And yet somehow, we must have some evil intent. It's all really very ludicrous. By the way, the cancer patients are doing smashingly, and our results are being written up this year.
There is in fact zero clinical evidence that such a thing as "progesterone detox" is anything but pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo. Your body's excretory and circulatory systems are extremely efficient at getting rid of things you put inside of it. That's the reason when women miss on a dose on the Wiley Protocol they feel it within hours (men too for the Men's Protocol): the hormones are gone.
I encourage everyone to work with their doctor, do their own research, and understand what certain options are, etc. However, I cannot idly sit by while people pass off fallacious and frankly laughable excuses for medical advice regarding concepts that are made up like "progesterone toxicity". Do you have any idea how much progesterone a women makes when she is pregnant? The levels are astronomical. There are no lasting progesterone toxicity events with pregnancy either. And we don't approach pregnancy levels on the Wiley Protocol. Do you think something magical happens in pregnancy? Some unicorn or stork in scrubs comes down from the heavens and imbues a pregnant women a superpower to be able to handle such high progesterone? Doesn't happen.
We are attacked by posters like the one above as lacking rigorous scientific evidence (ironically it's something we are actively gathering, unlike anyone else you might choose to get bio-identicals from), and yet the very same ones turn around in an internet forum and say something as patently absurd as "you might take two years to detox from progesterone poisoning". It makes my brain hurt to have to defend against points like this because I'm taking time out of my life to defend something that has no basis in reality.
Well, you might need to have a good bleeding with leeches, and maybe drink some witches brew and have your bile and blood humors adjusted too. There's about as much supporting science behind medieval medicine as there is in this concept of "progesterone poisoning". Look, the science and data are CLEAR, and any endocrinologist can tell you, hormones are dose dependent. Think about your birth control pills: you put in some progestins exogenously with the pill, and your body stops ovulating because the exogenous hormones trump the endogenous ones quite clearly. If you miss a contraceptive dose, you might get pregnant. Why you may ask? Because progesterone toxicity does not exist, nor does progesterone require a long time to leave your system. Like with the pill, it's between 12-48 hours (unless it's a pill form that is meant to be slow acting like Yaz, which I recommended you stay as far away as possible from).
Now if you put on a lot of exogenous progesterone like in the Wiley Protocol, it isn't simply additive. Your body puts your own progesterone production into senescence, and you have only what you put on.
The effects most women felt coming off of the Wiley Protocol was in fact due mostly to them having to remember what it was like to be in menopause and not have enough (or almost any in some cases) hormones.
I wish you the best of luck in whatever health choices you pursue for yourself. If there is anything we can do here at Wiley Systems to help address the issues you had or are having, please let us know. We have a number of prescriber's who are very adept and have more experience than others that we can refer you to. Often that can make all of the difference.
And regarding a previous post that we don't take down doctors who ask to be taken off the website again, is completely false and simply a lie. We would never want to have anyone listed on the website who isn't motivated, knowledgeable, and/or capable of prescribing. That would destroy what we're building, and contrary to what some would have you believe on the internet, we're not that stupid. Please feel free to forward any correspondence from any of these above mentioned prescriber's and I will personally ensure they are taken down without hesitation.
Best Regards,
April 29, 2011 - 2:55amJake Raden
General Manager, Wiley Systems
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